UCCSN Board of Regents' Meeting Minutes
June 4-5, 1987


Pages 105-116



June 4, 1987

The Board of Regents met on the above date in Rooms 201-202,

Donald Moyer Student Union, University of Nevada, Las Vegas.

Members present: Mr. Daniel J. Klaich, Chairman

Mr. James Eardley

Mr. Joseph M. Foley

Mrs. Dorothy S. Gallagher

Mr. Chris Karamanos

Mrs. Joan Kenney

Mrs. Jo Ann Sheerin

Mrs. Carolyn M. Sparks

Mrs. June F. Whitley

Others present: Chancellor Mark H. Dawson

President William Berg, NNCC

President Anthony Calabro, WNCC

President Joseph Crowley, UNR

President John Gwaltney, TMCC

President Robert Maxson, UNLV

Mr. Donald Klasic, General Counsel

Dr. Warren Fox, Vice Chancellor

Ms. Mary Lou Moser, Secretary

The special meeting was called to order by Chairman Klaich at

9:20 A.M., on Thursday, June 4, 1987.

1. Denied Affiliation of Old College with the University of

Nevada System

Chairman Klaich stated the purpose of this special meeting

was to discuss the affiliation of Old College with the Uni-

versity of Nevada System. On April 17, 1987 the Board of

Regents met to consider a proposal from the Board of Trust-

ees of Old College requesting affiliation of its schools

of Law and Humanities with the University of Nevada System.

Regents previously had asked the Chancellor's staff to ex-

amine the proposal and to prepare a background feasibility

report. He commended Chancellor Dawson and Vice Chancellor

Fox for the comprehensive report distributed to the Regents

prior to the meeting. Mr. Dawson clarified a statement in

the report concerning the ability of UNS to incur debt.

Debt may be incurred providing the means by which that debt

will be repaid is known. Chancellor Dawson stated that Vice

Chancellor Fox had prepared the report, and had attended the

accreditation meeting of the American Bar Association (ABA)

in May when accreditation for Old College was being con-


Vice Chancellor Fox reviewed the meeting and the report. He

thanked Old College for its considerable participation co-

operation in the preparation of the report. Further, he

stated that this report reflects the thoughts of the Aca-

demic Council, the Presidents' Council and the members of

the Chancellor's staff. Questions from the Regents concern-

ing this issue also have been answered in this report. (See

report filed in the Regents Office.)

Highlights of the report are:

1. UNS studies in 1973 and 1980 recommended a law school

was not needed at that time.

2. UNLV's 1983 master plan included future establishment

of a law school.

3. The 1973 report stated that a law school with less than

300 students is possible, but very expensive. In 1986

Old College had enrolled 153 students in the Fall and

133 students in the Spring semesters. The estimates

for the number of students who might attend a law school

in Nevada are 250 per year, once that school is under


4. The accreditation for a law school at Old College was

denied, mainly because of the financial instability of

Old College. However, the denial was not based on fi-

nances alone.

5. Old College is awaiting a report from the Northwest Ac-

crediting Association, for accreditation of its Humani-

ties programs. The preliminary report listed a number

of strong points at Old College; however, the final

decision will not be made until sometime in the Summer.

If Old College does not receive accreditation at this

time, it must wait 2 years to re-apply.

6. A Reno building located on Second Street and which hous-

es Old College was donated by the Gannett Newspapers.

The original terms of the agreement state if the build-

ing is not used by Old College, it was to be sold with

the proceeds to go to the School of Journalism at UNR.

Gannett has now verbally agreed that the building can

be retained by Old College and sold to retire the debt.

7. An ABA survey shows the estimated annual cost of a law

school with 200 students is $2 million, for 500 students

it is $5 million, or an averge of $10,000 per student

per year. In addition to student costs are the build-

ings, libraries, etc. Upon questioning by Chairman

Klaich about the purposes for the building, Mr. Robert

List, a member of the Board of Trustees for Old College,

stated that at the time the gift was made, the building

was appraised at $5 million. Old College received a

gift of $1.3 million to make improvements; therefore,

the building is now valued at $6.3 million plus a law

library with an estimated value of $1.5 million.

8. Nevada has a number of students participating in the

WICHE program, wherein those students go out of State

to law schools. The number of WICHE students from

Nevada has been declining in the last few years, mainly

because of rising costs. The demand of students wishing

to participate in the WICHE program continues to climb

but the State appropriation is not keeping up with the


President Crowley stated he concurred in the findings of the

report and the recommendations. He stated the Humanities

program at Old College was excellent and UNR is interested

in exploring whether those programs could be incorporated

on its Campus.

Mr. List introduced the representatives of Old College pres-

ent. They include Mr. Warren Nelson, Chairman of the Board

of Trustees, Mr. John Flanagan and Mr. Bill Boyd, members of

the Board, Dr. Alan De Giulio, President of Old College, Ms.

Mary White Stewart, Dean of the School of Humanities, Mr.

Felix Stumph, Dean of the School of Law, and Mr. John Mc

Kissick, a student. Mr. List expressed thanks to the Board,

the Chancellor, the Chancellor's staff and the Presidents

for the time they have taken in the discussions on Old


Mr. List acknowledged that the debt at Old College is $3.8

million. He stated that Old College feels that Nevada does

need a law school and that enrollment would be approximately

240 students. Last year, 260 took the Nevada Bar Examina-


Mr. List related that there are two problems to be answered:

one is finances and one is the time frame for planning the

transfer of the School of Law to UNLV.

He stated accreditation has been more difficult and more

costly than the Board had originally thought. A law school

must be operating and prove the quality of its education

before accreditation and students cannot practice law unless

they graduate from an accredited law school. It is more

difficult for a private law school to attain accreditation

than a public school because of the finances; 72.4% of the

Old College graduates last year passed the Bar Exam. The

quality of the Board, the faculty and the students at Old

College is very high. All members of the Board of Trustees

are volunteers.

Mr. List stated that if half of the students attending out

of State schools could be brought back to Nevada, they would

pay for the cost of the law school. He suggested leaving

the law school in Reno for 1 to 2 years because there is a

dedicated faculty and a number of students already in place,

and it would provide those students continuity in finishing

their law program. Problems he identified in the ABA ac-

creditation denial almost all related to dollars: higher

salaries for faculty and obtaining more senior faculty mem-

bers. Mr. List discussed tuition costs in various law

schools and, should UNS take over the law school, tuition

charges would need to be raised. He suggested charging

$7000 per student next year, allowing 150 students to en-

roll at UNLV, and the following year approximately 200 stu-

dents should be enrolled, thereby reducing the deficit

every year through this raise in fees. In this manner, pos-

sibly within 3 to 5 years, the debt then could be erased.

Mr. List stated he recognized the timing problem involved in

that Old College is requesting that UNS take over the pro-

gram immediately and begin courses in the Fall. He also

urged the Board to encourage Presidents Crowley and Maxson

to bring these programs to the Board for implementation

within that time frame.

Mr. List next discussed funding for the program and the

building. He suggested that UNS pay rent for its part of

the building at $300,000 per year, stating Old College would

help to raise the funds for this rental. This would also

give UNS the option to acquire the building at a future


Mrs. Sheerin questioned when Old College could reapply for

ABA accreditation and was told that the earliest would be

10 months from April 23-24, 1987. It would also require an

accreditation report and a visit to the school sometime in

February, 1988.

Mr. Klaich asked if there was any relationship between the

Northwest and the ABA accreditation processes, and about the

fiscal note to accreditation. Dr. De Giulio related that

the two are not connected and further stated that the real

problem in the accreditation was that Old College did not

have the financial stability needed or required by the ABA,

but that a public school goes through its funding process by

the State. Further, he related that the ABA report also

stated that more space is needed for the law school, addi-

tional senior faculty should be acquired, additional library

materials and a full-time placement director are needed, as

well as higher salaries for their faculty.

Mr. Klaich was concerned about the ABA's comments on finan-

cial stability and questioned whether it would be the same

with the State of Nevada pumping funds into Old College.

Also, that there has been no support from the Governor, the

Legislature, or the State Bar Association of Nevada for the

System to acquire Old College. Mr. List replied that Old

College has not gone to the State Bar for support at this

time; however, its Board of Governors did give Old College

a resolution of support. The Nevada Supreme Court has also

given them support. The Governor in his Commencement speech

this Spring encouraged the continued operation of Old Col-

lege. As far as the Legislature is concerned, Lt. Governor

Bob Miller and State Senator William Raggio are members of

their Board of Trustees. Mr. List stated that he felt there

was a great deal of support for the continuation of Old

College. He further stated that they should have been be-

fore the Board of Regents a year ago, but did not realize

the difficulty of acquiring accreditation from the ABA.

Mrs. Sheerin stated that these very problems are the reason

UNS has such a stringent planning process for new programs.

She stated that in the process, each Campus must include a

budget for its program based on FTE funding, and explain how

a new program would affect other programs. She asked Dr.

Fox what kind of State funding UNS could expect to receive

from the Legislature. Dr. Fox replied that the funds neces-

sary have not been calculated; however, State resources are

tight and a law school would require a much lower student-

faculty ratio than other programs.

Mr. Eardley questioned the UNS 1980 study wherein no law

school was recommended and asked what had changed at this

time. Dr. Fox replied that that 1980 report stated the

State could benefit from a law school and the report only

considered attendance of full-time students, not part-time

students. Further, that report stated that the Board of

Regents could at any time decide in favor of a law school.

Mr. Karamanos left the meeting at 11:35 A.M.

Dr. De Giulio stated that there are currently 2750 prac-

titioners in the State of Nevada. About 1000 of those are

inactive or are from out-of-state. Approximately 200 prac-

titioners are added to the rolls each year.

Mr. Klaich questioned what changes had taken place between

1980 and 1987 that would now require a law school in the

State. Dr. De Giulio replied that the economics and popula-

tion increases are the main reasons. Mr. Klaich further

questioned whether, based on the material gathered to date,

a need has been stated for a law school. Dr. Fox replied

that only an in-depth study by UNS could probably truly

determine such a need.

Mr. Klaich questioned whether some of our students in Nevada

were not getting into law school. As nearly as can be de-

termined all full-time students are now going out-of-state.

A law school in Nevada would serve those students who wish

to go on a part-time basis.

Mrs. Gallagher stated that this was the first legislative

session where Legislators had not threatened to close the

Medical School. Informal discussions concerning a law

school were held with Legislators, but the concept was re-

ceived with a less-than-enthusiastic response. She felt it

would require a great deal of education within the State

before UNS could take on a professional law school, and that

the feelings within the Legislature would not be supportive

of a law school at UNS at this time.

Mr. List replied that he understands the concern of the

Board, but feels that there is substantial support within

the Legislature. He also stated there were substantial pri-

vate dollars to be found for a law school in the form of an

endowment, pledges for buildings, etc. Further, at this

time, the Legislature has great respect for the Board and

for its planning and accountability.

Mrs. Sparks stated that to take on a law school at this time

would add a great burden for funding and great risks would

have to be undertaken since these problems have not been

worked out within the System. She was concerned that the

respect for the Board would slip greatly if funding for

another major professional school was requested.

Mr. Foley stated he has always favored a law school in Ne-

vada and felt that the University needs additional profes-

sional programs. He further stated that tuition at other

law schools is extremely high for out-of-state and felt

that an in-state school could cut the costs for students.

He estimated that 25% of the Mc George Law School class is

from Nevada, and with a law school here most of those stu-

dents might stay in the State. He stated he didn't think a

law school in the System would cause any more problems with

the Legislature than currently exists and that all of the

schools within UNS are growing and improving and the Campus-

es are in a constant effort to improve these programs. He

urged the Board to look at this acceptance favorably, stat-

ing that it is a singular opportunity at this time to ac-

quire Old College and that it would be more costly to begin

a law school in a few years without the faculty and programs

that would transfer from there.

Mrs. Whitley said she felt the Board had a responsibility to

the State for the funding and for the students who wish to

attend Nevada schools and urged favorable consideration.

Mrs. Kenney questioned how UNS would pay back the $3.8 mil-

lion debt which is outstanding. Mrs. Whitley stated she

felt it would be up to the Administration and the staff to

determine this pay-back arrangement.

Mr. List stated that it wasn't necessary to come up with $3

million for the debt immediately, but that in the future UNS

could buy the building which would clear that debt.

In response to Mr. Klaich's question of continuing expenses

for Old College should UNS not make a decision at this meet-

ting, Mr. Warren Nelson stated that Old College had reached

the end. It has borrowed from the bank and the ABA keeps

raising the cost of accreditation and that they are facing

a $3.8 or a $3.9 million debt. Mr. John Flanagan stated

that Old College is prepared to go 30 days longer at the


In response to a question from Mrs. Sparks, Dr. De Giulio

said that there could be no quick accreditation for a law

school, that the transition from Old College would only lead

to an accreditation request by UNS.

Mrs. Sheerin stated that she felt a planning study was need-

ed before UNS could consider a law school and she was not

advocating that UNS consider this particular law school.

Dr. Maxson stated that he felt no additional planning could

be done before the June 30 deadline requested by Old Col-

lege. UNLV would, at a later time, use the planning proc-

ess already established within the System to bring forth a

new program, he said.

Mr. Eardley questioned when the last time the Legislature

had approved and funded new programs within the System. Dr.

Crowley reported that start-up funds of $300,000 for archi-

tecture and a Ph. D. in Biology at UNLV, are proposed from

Question 5 monies for new programs out of this Legislature,

but the last direct appropriation for any new program was

in 1977 when the Medical School expanded from 2 to 4 years.

Dr. Berg stated that new programs are a low priority with

the Presidents, and that the current programs need addi-

tional funding and expansion. Mrs. Sheerin urged the Board

to look at the whole picture of Old College and not just

the funding.

Mrs. Sparks stated that she did not feel that it was really

fair to students for the Board to have to take over Old Col-

lege and pay increased tuition beyond the point of many

other law schools. Mrs. Sheerin stated that she felt Old

College was not charging $8000 a year for student tuition,

knowing full well they couldn't get it, but they are asking

the Board of Regents to do so. She stated that she did

not feel there were enough benefits to UNS to take on this


Mrs. Sparks questioned whether the law school and the hu-

manities schools could be separated. Dr. Crowley replied

that program planning would need to be done at UNR before

they could take the humanities program, but also funding for

that program would have to be found. He also said that UNR

does have programs in humanities, the program at Old College

is a different concept, and UNR is interested. The planning

for the humanities school would be relatively easy for UNR

to integrate immediately into its continuing education as

part of the general studies program. He stated that unless

a subsidy is found for the program, UNR would not be able

to incorporate the program. It would need a subsidy for 3

years and by the 4th year, he felt the program would be able

to stand alone. The cumulative deficit for those 3 years is

some $200,000 to $250,000. Old College has expressed in-

terest in providing these funds. Dr. Crowley stated that

the courses could be taught at UNR and would not be depend-

ent on the building at Old College.

Mr. Jeffrey Wing, and Old College student, questioned when

Nevada would have a law school. Mrs. Sheerin replied the

Campus needs a year or two to do the planning. Mr. Wing

replied he thought it would be advantageous to take over

the program now so that part-time students could be accom-

modated. Dr. Maxson stated that the law school question has

not been through his Campus planning process, that UNLV

would like to have a law school at some time in the future,

that his Campus people have spent endless hours since this

offer from Old College was presented, but he just does not

know how to make a transition of a law school within 30

days. There is the question of financing and accreditation.

Also, for accreditation, a building of 70,000 square feet,

all in one place, is required. That is the same size as

the Engineering building currently under construction on

the Campus at a cost of nearly $15 million. Further, he

stated that he felt the State should support any law school

and that it would be grossly unfair to ask students to pay

$8000 to $9000 per year for tuition.

Mr. List stated that he has contacted a number of people

concerning a fund-raising effort for Old College, but no

one will make a commitment unless the University will take

over the program. He asked for time to obtain firm commit-

ments for funding for a law school in the private sector.

Mr. Foley stated that he felt the Board would be remiss if

they did not allow Old College the opportunity to work with

these potential donors. Mr. List stated that he would need

a determination or a resolution by the Regents that they do

want a law school in order for any fundraising activity to

be successful. He stated that he felt he could raise $5

million up front and $10 million for capital construction

for a law school. Mrs. Sparks questioned that if the pri-

vate sector could come up with so much funding, how would

the Regents request from the Legislature State dollars to

operate the school once it was under way? Mr. List replied

that a law school is self-supporting after the first few


Mr. Foley moved approval to extend to September a decision

by the Board in order to give Old College time to commence

a fund-raising effort for a law school at UNLV. Mrs.

Whitley seconded.

Mr. Eardley stated that it was a difficult position for the

Board and he did not feel the Board should impose on a Cam-

pus any program of these proportions. Mrs. Sheerin stated

that she felt it was a dilemma for the Board, and that they

are simply putting off a decision and that she was speaking

to defeat the motion. Mrs. Gallagher stated that she felt

the motion did not pose any sources of funding and she was

speaking against this motion. Dr. Maxson stated again that

he felt his Campus would have to go through the academic

process of program planning and he would not be willing to

take a program without the proper Campus planning. Mrs.

Gallagher stated that money isn't the only problem, but if

$15 million would solve the problem, would the faculty and

Dr. Maxson be able to go forward with a law school? Dr.

Maxson replied that he had never initiated this program,

that he has never initiated a program from the President's

office, that there is a process in place to do this, and it

would take the better part of a year for that process to be

completed. President Gwaltney of TMCC stated that it does

not have the funds to pick up any costs of the building.

TMCC is interested in the building and needs the space, he

said, but there are no funds to pay for rent.

Mr. List stated he felt that passage of this motion might

give them time to raise the $10 to $15 million necessary to

get a law school going. Mrs. Gallagher stated that it is

not fair to Old College, the Board of Trustees and the stu-

dents to consider this motion. She further stated she felt

Dr. Maxson would like a law school some day, and has gone

through the process and when he has the funding for such a

school, he would be most happy to take on that project. Mr.

Eardley stated that he wanted a law school in Las Vegas, and

when the law school is complete the Board should seek State

funding. Dr. Berg questioned whether a law school would

come above all of the other programs and planning the Presi-

dents' Council has done over the last several years for the

System as a whole.

Motion failed upon roll call vote:

Yea: Regents Foley, Whitley

Nay: Regents Eardley, Gallagher, Kenney, Sheerin,

Sparks, Klaich

(Mr. Karamanos was absent)

President Crowley asked for authority to proceed with the

negotiations for the humanities program. Mr. Nelson stated

that he hoped the humanities school could go to UNR and

would be very willing to negotiate and see whether they had

any funds to assist in the transfer to UNR. Mrs. List stat-

ed that he felt funds could be obtained and described sev-

eral agreements Old College has which might be considered.

Mr. Klaich stated that the humanities school was different

from the law school, that the program concerns are different

and that UNR already has an established humanities program

on its Campus. Dr. Crowley stated that if the funds are

available, he would refer the consideration of integrating

the program to the UNR Faculty Senate.

Mrs. Gallagher moved approval of Dr. Crowley being allowed

to negotiate with Old College for the acquisition of its

humanities program. Mr. Foley seconded. Motion carried.

2. Approved Allocation of Funds: Regents Scholar Program

The Regents Scholar Program was established by the Board of

Regents in 1983 to recognize outstanding scholastic achieve-

ment by Nevada students, and to encourage them to remain in

the State. For the last 3 years, the program has awarded

general elective credit to scholars. However, effective

this year, the program will award a 1-year (30-credit)

scholarship to students selected as Regents Scholars.

In 1986 the Board of Regents established an endowment fund

of $50,000 to support the Regents Scholar Program. This

endowment was created with the idea that additional funds

would be forthcoming from the Legislature. The legislative

funds have not materialized.

Mrs. Gallagher moved approval to allow the withdrawal of the

$50,000 endowment for the Regents Scholar Program and the

expenditure of $12,400 for these funds for 30 students for

the 1987-88 school year with the remaining amount to be

placed in a special account. Mrs. Kenney seconded. Motion


3. Discussion of Professional Salary Guidelines

Chancellor Dawson distributed a handout comparing the Arkan-

sas Study and the salaries of Administrators with the Sys-

tem. Mr. Dawson stated that the Board has adopted a goal

for all Administrators to be in the top quartile of the Ar-

kansas Study. At this time only the 2 University Presidents

are in that top quartile. Dr. Crowley stated that the fac-

ulty is roughly at the average of its comparison group. Dr.

Maxson stated that the faculty salaries are more in line

than the Administrators if one removes the 2 Presidents.

The Administrators are well below the average of the study

at this time. Mrs. Gallagher suggested that the Board

should move to place salaries at the average level first,

and then into the top quartile.

Dr. Maxson stated that the Presidents need flexibility when

hiring new personnel, and he gave as an example the hiring

of an Engineering Dean at UNLV. Part of that salary was

provided through private funds to achieve competitive level

for recruitment -- Chancellor Dawson stated that a 5% in-

crease is being sought from the Legislature for the faculty

which should move the faculty almost to the top quartile.

This 5% includes the 2% merit pool being considered by the

Legislature. Dr. Crowley related that the Senate and As-

sembly have agreed to include non-teaching personnel in the

merit pool, but is excluding positions of Deans and above.

Mr. Eardley stated that no defined salary schedule exists,

no automatic increments are provided for UNS professional

staff, an that UNS doesn't pay the total retirement for

UNS employees, while most other State agencies enjoy 100%

employer-paid retirement. A discussion ensued comparing

benefits of different State employee groups and he expressed

the need to examine the differences in benefits of the dif-

ferent groups. Mr. Eardley also questioned why UNS did not

receive longevity and merit steps for its employees as do

the school districts. Dr. Gwaltney stated that there was

a difference between University and Community College

counterparts, and the amount of pay received by these in-

dividuals, with pay for those in the Community Colleges

being lower than similar positions at the University level.

This lower salary relegates the Community College person to

a second-class citizen in his opinion.

The question of employer-paid retirement was discussed. Mr.

Dawson stated that he had been working with the System Com-

pensation Committee for the last 2 years urging them to ac-

cept employer-paid retirement for all professional employees

but each time it has been proposed, the Compensation Commit-

tee has rejected this proposal.

Dr. Calabro suggested that Nevada might be able to conduct a

Community College study on a national survey level, such as

the Arkansas Study does at the University level, which would

be of great service to all Community Colleges throughout the


Mrs. Gallagher moved approval to direct the Chancellor to

institute a plan to study salary policies and procedures.

Mr. Foley seconded.

Mr. Foley questioned whether it would help or harm the UNS

to be different from the public school system pay scales.

Motion carried.

The meeting adjourned at 3:35 P.M.

Mary Lou Moser